Friday, November 24, 2006

Women Are Always Right (At Least In Our Minds...)

The hubs and I are having a disagreement. It's an argument as old as time itself. For the duration of our marriage we have been having this same argument. (Sad, really, you'd think we would have either resolved it or moved on. Nope, not us. We are nothing if not tenacious.)

So I am asking all four of my regular readers, and all you invisible folks to delurk and weigh in. So that after 13 damn years I can put this miserable argument to rest once and for all.

Is it possible for a man and a woman to have a close friendship and not be or become sexually interested in one another. Or is it more of a When Harry Met Sally type of thing? Is it inappropriate for a married person to have a friendship with an unmarried member of the opposite sex?

What do you think? Enlighten us rednecks. Bring peace to my home.

If nothing else, lie for me. Give me what I need to do my happy Boo-Yah! dance for my hubs. Strike that. Tell me what you really think, even if it means him gloating and acting like the ass he can be, loudly proclaiming victory.

But for the love of all married folk, help us.

Because if I have to have this argument for another 13 years, I might just have to stick a fork in my eye.


Blogger Thumper said...

I have had one particular male friend for over 30 years; we're close, we can talk about anything, but friends is all it ever was and all it's ever going to be.

I think it would only be inappropriate if we excluded our spouses (or just mine, before the friend got married...) or hid anything from them. Now that he is married, I probably talk to his wife more than him ('cause, well, she's funny as hell), but we'll always be very, very good friends.

10:22 a.m.  
Anonymous mamatulip said...

Totally possible. One of my closest friends is a guy, and Dave has quite a few female friends.

10:53 a.m.  
Blogger Bethany said...

Possible. I have guy friends with no sex, hell no chance of sex. My husband also has women friends. He knows if he takes the lovin' outside the marriage that he had better take his dirty laundry and farting with him, cause he won't be comin' back!

11:53 a.m.  
Blogger bubandpie said...

I'm with Harry on this one. I won't say impossible, because clearly that can be disproved, but I do think it's risky. As long as the marriage is strong and healthy, sure, no problem - but no marriage ever is strong and healthy all the time, and when there are cracks, a harmless friendship can turn into the wedge that drives things apart.

12:21 p.m.  
Blogger Old MD Girl said...

Honestly, I think men only become "friends" with women they want to sleep with. The woman may or may not be aware of this, so she may think that they are actually friends. Note: there is nothing really wrong with this, as many men want to sleep with any/everything in a skirt. In theory at least.

For this reason, men and women can only be "friends" if and only if the following conditions are met:

1. The man finds the woman attractive and wants to sleep with her.
2. The woman is married/taken/a lesbian
3. The man has some major defect that makes him a non-sex candidate from the woman's perspective.

It's no accident then, that men tend to think that men and women can't be friends, and women think they can.

12:42 p.m.  
Blogger craziequeen said...

My best mate is Aginoth, and my other closest pal is cyberkitten - both male.

Aginoth is like a brother to me, cyberkitten is like an extension of myself - I adore them both but I find neither sexually attractive......

such British common sense!


12:48 p.m.  
Blogger J. said...

Chicklet, I'd love to take your side. But you didn't tell me it. So now you're forcing me to be honest. I hate that shit.

It's possible for a WOMAN to have a friendship with the opposite sex. But I'm sorry, no matter how much the MAN in the friendship says otherwise, in some dark recess of his mind, he wants in your panties.

It's happened to me three times now. One was a friendship of SIX YEARS. And then he confessed. Said he loved me. I felt like a shit, and on some other level, I also felt very betrayed.

Soooo ... NO. Or, to give you some fighting power ... maybe 2% can actually be 'just friends'.

12:48 p.m.  
Blogger J. said...

I just remembered an old Chris Rock skit on this subject. I have to find it and send it to you. You'll laugh your arse off.

12:50 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok I'm delurking


I also have the sexist thought that it is more likely for a married woman to be able to have a male friend than it is for a married man to have a female friend.....

men are pigs, that's all there is to it.

12:59 p.m.  
Blogger toyfoto said...

I think the members of the opposite sex CAN be friends, but only under certain conditions:

A. One of said friends is gay/lesbian.


B. One or both are physically unattractive to each other. (This is sad, but it's an extension of the he's "Just a Friend" situation in high school). As long as ONE person would never in a million years touch the other in that way, you're good.

While I definitely think they are possible, I also think male/female platonic relationships are rare because jealousy may get in the way. Even if that jealousy is unfounded it's just easier not to "go there" if its the person you love who is uncomfortable.

1:16 p.m.  
Blogger Mrs. Chicky said...

Yes, possible. Hard to pull off, but possible. It's easier if one of the parties involved is gay but if both are hetero it's a delicate balance that can be achieved if there is little attraction between the man and woman.

If you find the other person to be very attractive, however, that will eventually get in the way. Not that I know that from experience or anything.

3:08 p.m.  
Blogger Wendy said...

I say, NO.

6:48 p.m.  
Blogger Junebugg said...

I have several male friends who have been around for over 25 years and we're just friends. They're like my adopted brothers. So the answer is yes, they can. Of course not every man or every woman can do this. Too many of them (male and female both) think with their gonads instead of their hearts. The ones who remain true friends are special and should be appreciated as such

7:29 p.m.  
Blogger Above Average Joe said...

I had a female friend for almost 10 years. Fun to have a few beers with but that's it. Mrs. Joe was friendly with her & led me to believe she was o.k. with it. The relationship has now drifted apart. (Kids have a tendency to do that.) I get the feeling my wife isn't too upset that we dont go out anymore though.

8:34 p.m.  
Blogger Softball Slut said...

Wow on the fence about this one. I think most of the guys that I have been good friends with have sexual undertones. Or at one time, we were more than friends, but are just friends now. Wow. I would say prolly not unless the friend was gay. Just cause you know they most likely wont be hitting on your significant other.

1:00 p.m.  
Blogger kimmyk said...

I think girls and guys can be friends without being sexual. But I think one might have an underlying motive. Most of my friends are guys and I wouldn't want to sleep with any of them.

But you know they all wanna get with my hotness.

HAHA, I'm kiddin. I'm sure they'd rather cut their winkers off than put it near me. We're all like siblings. Gross.

2:00 p.m.  
Blogger Lillithmother said...

Yes it's possible...I've had several male friends, some I was attracted to sexually (I'll admit it)but never acted upon because I valued the friendship way too much.

This is an age old argument...and I think it depends on the individual. And honesty...tons of honesty...

2:43 p.m.  
Blogger stefanierj said...

Daddymatic and I say "Yes, but it's difficult. It can get weird."

We have compiled a list of activities one could do with a opposite-sex friend in order of increasing weirdness (top of the list=less weird, bottom of the list=most weird):

Two-person luge

These are all conditional on the vibe that one spouse gets from another. There are probably guys I know that I could hang out with a lot, and DM wouldn't think a thing. I'd probably be cool with many of his female friends doing all but the last two.

It's also conditional on how many friends of the same sex that person has. DM just doesn't have a ton of male friends, and that makes a diff, too.

Can't wait to hear the follow-up...

3:39 p.m.  
Blogger Abandoned in Pasadena said...

Women can have a friendship with the opposite sex, but men cannot.

4:45 p.m.  
Blogger G said...

I think it is possible to have a friend of the opposite sex without wanting to be involved with them sexually. I think its more possible for a female to have a male bestfriend then it is for a male to have a female friend.

6:14 p.m.  
Blogger Shana said...

I am delurking...and I have to say I agree with "Abandoned in Pasadena" Women can, but men can't. At least not my!!!

~Shana W.

6:17 p.m.  
Anonymous CharmingDriver said...

I definately think it's possible, for men and women. I mean, it's funny to say that men want to nail anything that presents the opportunity but I do think most men move beyond that (mostly) by their mid-20s and even before then most aren't ruled absolutely by their nether regions.

I think though that if a friendship, even if it's on the up-and-up and nary an untoward word has ever been exchanged, makes your partner uncomfortable a decision has to be made to either accomodate your mate or hang on to the friendship (sometimes done out of a sense of, ''but I wasn't doing anything wrong!!'') out of spite or disregard for your partner.

I'm not advocating letting a jealous or possesive spouse dictate all the friendships of their mate but nine times out of ten when a man or woman feels threatened or not quite right with a person spending time with their partner, there is good reason.

8:22 p.m.  
Blogger Jo said...

Delurking. A number of people are strict believers in the When Harry Met Sally/Ladder Theories, and while I think that there's probably truth in the statement that if you're visiting a guy friend, and you decide to walk out into his living room completely nude and offer him sex, he's not going to object on the basis that it could potentially harm a friendship, I don't think it's ALWAYS the case.

I have a number of unmarried guy friends, and my fiance is completely comfortable with it. My best friend growing up was male, and had he not passed away from cancer 2 years ago, he'd probably STILL be my best friend. And perhaps even our guy friends really are thinking in completely different terms than we are...perhaps there is attraction and maybe even desire...but honestly, if they know boundaries and respect, and value the friendship enough to stick to that, I think that the friendship is perfectly acceptable.

8:41 p.m.  
Blogger ECR said...

To this day, my husband denies that he said it, but I remember the conversation perfectly and it went like this: "if a guy works with a girl and they go out to lunch together every day, it's inevitable that they hook up."

He didn't realize at the time that those words would come back to bite him for the rest of his life.

8:57 p.m.  
Blogger Mrs. Chicken said...

Mr. Chicken's friends are ALL women. Many of them are very attractive and younger - and single. The fact of the matter is that most teachers are young single women in the district in which he taught. It took me a long time to get over the pangs of jealousy. But I trust Mr. Chicken and "the girls" as we call them, are close to me and the baby, as well. They were at my dad's wake and they cooked my whole family a meal during the week of the funeral. They also came to the Poo's Christening.

So the answer is yes - if the circumstances are right and the spouse is part of the relationship.

9:19 a.m.  
Blogger Crunchy Carpets said...

My dh has female friends and they are just that...friends through common interests.

We all hang out now..but he used to hang with her and talk on the phone with her...didn't bother me.

Now I HAVE met the type of women who profess 'friendship' with men and it is fairly obvious their ulterior motives.

10:24 a.m.  
Anonymous Jojo said...

Wow, You are now exactly no farther ahead than you were 10 years ago!! My vote... yes BUT at least one will probably have ulterior motives. Could be the male or the female. It doesn't mean they will act on it, just an innocent crush.

4:04 p.m.  
Blogger Gette said...

I'm on the side of "possible." Had several. Also had the kind where I found out the guy was "interested" but never acted on it. Also never ruined the friendship. These all petered out over time or distance, no hard feelings. If one or the other is married, just remember the cardinal rule to never do or say anything you wouldn't in your spouse's presense. (Shouldn't do that with same sex friends either) Your spouse should be your helpmeet and confidant. If you feel the need to complain about your spouse to a third party, it should be a neutral third party and done in the spouse's presense. Wow, I'm off on a tangent here...

4:59 p.m.  
Blogger My float said...

It depends. Which side are you on?

8:54 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Absolutely possible.

But it all boils down to this....

Can the partner handle it?

If not, forgetaboudit. You are, as they say down here 'up shit creek in a barbwire canoe'.

Hope that gets you your booyah.

6:57 a.m.  
Blogger Kristen said...

I don't think it's possible for a man and a woman to be just friends without something ever having happened, or something ever happening (or just one of them secretly wanting something to happen).

I also DO think it's inappropriate for a man or woman to have opposite sex friends outside of mutual friends, say- his best friend is your friend...but I don't think it's appropriate for a woman (or a man) to just pick up the phone and call a member of the opposite sex just to say hey, whats up wanna go shopping (unless it's the woman calling her gay best friend of course). I think it's risky, and crossing a line. Just my opinion though.

11:22 a.m.  
Blogger Bina said...

I'm late, but hey, I still have an opinion. I agree with many of your other comments. A woman can have a male friend and never entertain the thought of sex, while a man has a female friends and probably always wonders what sex would be like. That's just how men are, and this is coming not only from my, but my brother and husband, guy friends from work, etc.

12:30 p.m.  

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